As a consultant, I have ever abandoned my client in New York . It is a really cool experience!

jabber(jabber)

I live by selling my skills. I can still remember the situation when I was pissed off by those companies, because I was green. They just want the people they need. Even I was good at Java basics, even I had a good potential, even I was in urgent need for a job, no one would like to give me a job for the sake of company.

I have ever kicked off my client in New York on the fourth day. Before I landed in Toronto,
I negotiated with my present agent and boss and got $20K salary increase. Am I satisfied? No, no.... I stay in USA because I have a rental lease.

Don't be shy with money. I have ever been out of job. I am no longer that green novice.
I are ready to fire my boss. Of course, I am ready to be fired. A person with my skill set and experiences should be warried about being fired. As I began to hunt for IT jobs, nobody showed a thread of sympathy on me.
So I never feel guilty in leaving an employer--- The reason is simple: they keep me because I am useful to them.

(#15416@0)
Last Updated: 2000-11-22
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The answer does not make sense to individuals -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-20 {374} (#15132@0)

I don't how what is the average salary...For individuals, it can be as low as $25K and as high as $130K. For individuals, if they cannot get a job, the high IT salary does not make any sense no matter how high it is.

I am still in USA. But I can tell some difference. What I earn within one hour is roughly equivalent to what a waiter can make using a whole day.

那么国内硕士毕业,在IT行业能拿多少钱呢? -amy(ss); 2000-11-20 (#15134@0)

IT guys's salaries are determined according to their positions and abilities, not their degrees... -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-21 {2239} (#15221@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Dear Amy,

I think your way of thinking needs some adjustments. Let me say you have a MS in CS from pretigious Peking University. It does not quarantee that you can get an IT job in Canada. The most imporant things is that you have true and hot skills, and that you have some experiences that the employer can trust. Degrees does not make much sense. I don't have any degrees in CS, but
I am hot on the market. My salary is much higher than my colleages (they have degrees in CS from Tsihwa, Fudan and Shanghai Communication Univeristy). Please do not think what a salary you can get because you have a degee in CS.

Because of lack of so-called Canadian experiences, Chinese IT immigrants's starting salaries are relatively low in comparison to their competence. To
reach the market level, we need to change jobs several times. Usually, the employer offer new immigrants lower salaries--- this is called "Take Your Advantage" in English,
"Zhan Ni De Pian Yi" in Chinese.

I do have ever seen some figures about the
average salaries of IT guys. For instance,
one investigation indicates that architects' average salary is $64K in USA, $56K in Canada. I think this is nonsense. All of the architects I know have a salary of over $80K, so I never believe these average numbers.
One of my neighbor is a fresh MS in CS. He is a networking guy and his starting salary is $90K. However, one Chinese lady I know, who does networking jobs too, is making only $35K.

In addition, even two people have the same salary, they may have different values. Some companies have very good benifits.
If you are lucky in working in some uproring start-ups, your stock option can make you a millinaire.

I will move to Toronto soon. My prinicple is very simple: I don't care how much I can earn in my first job. Even some companies offer me $35K annually, I will accept the offer without hesitation. I have absolute confidence in my skill set, so I do believe I will abandon those employers who have taken my advantges.

One thing I can assue you: If you are a programmer, it is very hard for you to make $80K or above. $80K 0r above means more responsibility, not limited to coding.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Thank you for your answer. btw, what kind of work the architects in IT do? -amy(ss); 2000-11-21 (#15274@0)

I ask somebody else to answer your question. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-22 (#15390@0)

Do you really mean IT fresh guy can make $90K a year, in Canada??? What a encouraging news!! Come on yankees, welcome to Canada. You can buy a great house in five years, with cash! -hearts(hearts); 2000-11-21 (#15283@0)

You guy are teasing me. I know who I am and what Canada is. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-22 {206} (#15388@0)
I am by no means a freshman. It is no problem for me to get a $60 or $70K in Toronto. But if I want $80K or over, I will pay a big price. As far as I know, an $80K guy is not simply a programmer in Canada.

jabber是个相当成熟的家伙!!呵呵...偶已经准备从最困难的处境起步,但毕竟还没有体会到什么是"最困难的".偶总是乐呵呵的:)P -aabb(爱吃水草的鱼); 2000-11-22 {61} (#15349@0)
有个私人的问题,呵呵,jabber,既然你的米国不错,为何还要来加拿大?

Dear 爱吃水草的鱼, I don't have privacy. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-22 {2489} (#15393@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛90% of Chinese people think USA is a better place than Canada. Here are some reasons:
1) One can earn more than In Canada.
2) There are more job opportunities in USA.
3) The climate in USA is better than in Canada.
4) There is more fun in USA because it is a "bigger" country.
5) The tax rate in USA is much lower than in Canada.

I agree on all these reasons 100%.

Usually, people know but do not care for the following facts:
1) USA is a society teemed with guns. In Was DC, each year more than 365 people are gun shot. In school, kids are frequently found to carry guns. Of course, all the people don't believe they can become victims.
2) The medicare and social security in USA is not always reliable. If one does not gather a lot of money, he/she cannot keep his/her living standard once he/she reties. If one lives up to 90 without a plan, things are still worst.
But all these are not so bad. The worst thing is: If somebody is disabled, if somebody has been sick for a long time.... Of course, most people don't think they can fall into this category.
3) I don't see much fun in USA probably because I am dumb. I understand that those people who live in great pressure have no interest in fun. Of course, I see some Chinese husbands enjoy live American football broadcasting while their wives are doing jobs in Chinese restaurant. I think one can has fun too in Canada if he/she has a reliable income.
4) I have some fun in teaching people Java technologies. The reason I still want to come to Canada is that I wish to run a training center, and become a prestigious Java instructor like Bruce Eckel. I have ever taught for some training schools but I don't appreciate their guidelines in running a school. What I need is my school. What I need is to make people success.
People usualy ask me: what's the use for you to learn these Java things? My answer is "show off". Actually, I learn because I want to teach others. Otherwise, I don't need to read books and do labs in the evening.

5) Earning more money does not mean possessing more wealth. The county (Fairfax county) I live in is No. 1 wealthy county in USA. The housing is terribly expensive.
If one wants to live near to good school,
he/she just spends big money to buy a mean house. I think this is the same as in Toronto.

Many friends advised me against going to Canada.

I hope I have satisfied your curiosity. My lovely fish!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Thinking You Should Fire the Boss? -guest:googel; 2000-11-22 {584} (#15407@0)
Hello Jabber,

Even if you love your boss, perhaps you just don't want to
keep working for him or her for the rest of your life.
After all, that is a very long time!

And, besides money, there are many, many other great
"being-your-own-boss" reasons for starting your own home
business, such as:

- being able to spend more time with your family
- making your own schedule
- controlling your future
- reaping tax benefits
- not having to commute
- dressing casually
- alleviating stress

I understand your good ideas.
Hope your dream become true!

actually some of the reasons you listed as being-ur-own-business are not true. Such as "alleviating stress" "being able to spend more time with your family".And you have to take more risks to run your own business. -ely(Ely); 2000-11-22 (#15413@0)
As a consultant, I have ever abandoned my client in New York . It is a really cool experience! -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-22 {1013} (#15416@0)
I live by selling my skills. I can still remember the situation when I was pissed off by those companies, because I was green. They just want the people they need. Even I was good at Java basics, even I had a good potential, even I was in urgent need for a job, no one would like to give me a job for the sake of company.

I have ever kicked off my client in New York on the fourth day. Before I landed in Toronto,
I negotiated with my present agent and boss and got $20K salary increase. Am I satisfied? No, no.... I stay in USA because I have a rental lease.

Don't be shy with money. I have ever been out of job. I am no longer that green novice.
I are ready to fire my boss. Of course, I am ready to be fired. A person with my skill set and experiences should be warried about being fired. As I began to hunt for IT jobs, nobody showed a thread of sympathy on me.
So I never feel guilty in leaving an employer--- The reason is simple: they keep me because I am useful to them.

原来是酱紫的啊,I C. -aabb(爱吃水草的鱼); 2000-11-23 {359} (#15473@0)
jabber已经和多数人不在一条起跑线上了.象偶酱紫的多数人还在为生存为money拼命,jabber已经开始投入到为兴趣工作了.Great!这也是偶的目标!!jabber已经堕落成偶的榜样了,呵呵.
jabber谈论的美加异同偶很同意.偶曾经赴美短期考察,对米国有一些直观的认识.所以偶并不认为加拿大或米国一切都好.事在人为叭,还需自己努力!
在不安多于兴奋的心情里偶将度过国内的最后3个月,谁知道未来会怎样?

@Calgary

As a consultant, I have ever abandoned my client in New York . It is a really cool experience!

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