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俺上面说的是想起了另外一本书《传染病的文化史》(A History of Medicine by Lois N.

Magner) 里面有提到欧洲人把天花患者用过的毛毯送给美洲土著,来使他们感染病毒


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  • 枫下茶话 / 社会政治 / 我以前贴过类似的图,1820年代开始,原住民酋长主动和当时的加拿大政府合作,提出要政府和原住民合作开办寄宿学校,把孩子送到类似学校去学习现代科学技术;类似日本当年脱亚入欧的一种决定 ,是有绝对积极意义的事情,寄宿学校被过分的妖魔化了 +5
    • 知道酋长有被收买的不?知道白人当年是怎么从土著手里把地弄到手的不?土著与西人的智商根本不是一个档次的!就像华尔街商人去跟穷山僻壤的土老冒谈生意一样,谁会吃大亏? +1
      • 原住民如果不和欧洲殖民者打交道,到现在还在石器时代,连轮子也不懂得。 +2
        • 1820年代的这个酋长是谁?我至今没有查到,那段历史的原始资料很难查;但是这个酋长的远见,为自己族人未来考虑的勇气,比现在这些喝酒贪污吸毒堵铁路的原住民领导来说,不知道高出多少 +4
        • 人家就是喜欢并愿意在石器时代,咋地了?你这是站在强盗立场上强奸弱者的借口!明明就是想掠夺人家的资源还拿个堂皇理由说事 +5
          • 你怎么知道人家喜欢呆在石器时代?多数人糊涂不开窍,酋长还是明白的。其实在加拿大英国人对原住民还是不错的,1812年战争的时候原住民跟英军一起共同抵御美国 +4
          • 你可以将心比心,如果没有鸦片战争,你是不是还乐意活在裹小脚享受皇恩浩荡的时代?虽然现在中国官府还是可以随意欺压百姓,但起码不用见着县官就下跪,一个衙役都可以让你在站笼里站死了。莫非你乐意回去过这样比石器时代先进多的日子? +2
            • 北美土著人无法适应现代社会,这是问题的关键;黑人也有类似的问题
      • 难说,华尔街商人可能被土老冒活埋了,看你有武力有话语权,从来不是智力的问题
      • 关起门来不接触文明才是好的? +2
        • 你有你的“好”标准,人家也有人家的“好”标准,因为你有坚船利炮,就要拿你的标准去灭了人家?还不就是为了掠夺人家脚下的资源吗? +3
          • 不觉得是要灭了他们,是给他们学习进步的机会
            • 事实和结局就是灭了,他们的文化传统基本上灭了,地盘从整个北美收缩为非常狭小的“保留区”,心理残疾、精神面貌陷入无法救药的境地,这就是笨和被西人忽悠的结果!但反过来并不能说明西人这么做是文明的,是以武力和强势的强词夺理! +3
              • 不“灭”的话他们也什么都没有,还是原始社会。事实上他们也不是拥有整个北美,都是分散在各个部落,不能说因为他们住在北美,整个北美就是他们的 +3
                • 呵呵,留着,让中国人来灭,就对了
                  • 中国人又惹你了? +2
                • 人都没了,还要什么,豪宅还是豪车?
                  • 在加拿大有冲突,但没有屠杀
                    • 没有战争,没有屠杀,没有打仗,但有打架。打输了被人吃肉,妻女被赢的一方当老婆。 +1
                      • 楼上说原住民喜欢这样的生活 +1
                    • 整个美洲的原住民人口在欧洲人到来的500年间下降了90%。加拿大情况基本差不多。
    • 同意原住民学校利大于弊,类似副作用少的好疫苗。另外,原住民使用的文字,还是白人给他们造的。白人,无论左右,都很瞧不起原住民,都不愿意帮他们,一些原住民没有饮用水,智忧党上台前用这个攻击保守党,上台后这么多年了,仍然没解决。 +2
      • 因为教会在强大的政治正确的压力下放弃了对寄宿学校的辩护,保持沉默。任由左派火力全开一边倒的抹黑;而其原始历史资料我也找不到,否则看看当年的各种文件,我相信会找出更多的为寄宿学校辩护的资料 +2
        • 南美教皇一直走这路线, 好处就是人多. 对不对,天知道
      • 加拿大白人,无论左右,都反省寄宿学校的罪行。首先因为寄宿学校给原住民道歉的,是Harper政府。倒是美国有极右认为对印第安人的种族灭绝是理所当然,是印第安人做出的牺牲,好让这些白人来worship 上帝。
        • 把寄宿学校说成是“罪行”,这个帽子扣得太大了;我只是通过所看到的一些对当时这段历史的原始描述,结合一些生活常识,推断出目前针对寄宿学校的文化大革命走的太远了 +3
          • 加拿大政府也承认寄宿学校是genocide, 而联合国定义genocide是crime。如果寄宿学校是好的,为什么加拿大政府要道歉?不要说是自由党为得选票的阴谋,是保守党政府先道歉的。 +1
        • 智忧的一个特点,是以为说好话的就是好人。没错,所有的白人所有的政党都在“反思”,“道歉”,,,仅仅如此,想喝干净的水,自己挑去,所有的白人所有的政党都不管。就跟智忧党匪首穿唐装和华人一起包饺子,就让智忧华人以为智忧党对华人好一样。
          • 尽管你说话不好听,
            但你说的这个我同意,加拿大政府至今为止对原住民的忏悔和补偿做的远远不够,还停留在很肤浅的位置。关于residential school的很多记录,加拿大政府至今都不愿意公开,而且确实还把好多责任推给了教堂。为什么?因为他们自己都不愿意也不敢面对,再往深了追究,加拿大政府的合法性都得怀疑。
    • 初衷应该是好的,但是“强制”则是不对的。
      • 这种强制,是得到当时的原住民酋长同意的
        • 都说了酋长是可以被收买的罗,而且还很容易收买,因为土老冒没见过世面,一些吃喝食物和不值钱的花哨东东就搞掂了。
        • 要得到家长的同意才算。当年清朝的时候的留美幼童的家长就签了生死状。
          • 这个和留美幼童性质不一样,寄宿学校属于9年义务教育,本身就带有一定的强迫性质,美国的黑人学生逃学在街上溜达,学校也要通知警察抓回来上课,你不能黑人去上学也要家长同意吧?留美幼童属于完成义务教育以后的出国镀金

            我没查过当时法律,但是估计义务教育法在加拿大已经普及,就是家长要强制把学龄孩子送到学校上学。。这个无论什么种族都应该强制执行。因为没有孩子会主动的喜欢上学。否则,光强制白人孩子去上学,把原住民孩子任其自由发展,终生打鱼围猎,彻底和现代世界脱钩,这是不是对原住民孩子的真正歧视?

            很浅显的道理,没人说出来,我只能冒着违反政治正确的风险把实话说一遍

            • 一般学生在学校里白天上课,晚上回家。学生出现了啥情况,家长当天就能知道。而送到寄宿学校,家长就失去了监护能力。如果没事就好,可一旦孩子在寄宿学校病死了,这让家长怎么想?
              • 拿现在的标准去衡量当年的寄宿学校,当然有各种值得声讨的地方;但是如果因为地处偏远,没法当天返回,这些孩子就不能上学,一辈子当文盲捕鱼打猎,酗酒吸毒,难道这就是我们愿意看到的另外一种解决方案? +2
                • 我认为,通过宣传可以让大部分家长同意把孩子送去寄宿学校。有了这种压力,寄宿学校也会更好地与家长沟通。
                  • 你好像并不知道大多数家长都是自愿的,这个我都已经谈过,而且去寄宿学校的人本来就占少数,不愿意的家长是少数中的少数,但现在的宣传洗脑是让像你这样的普通人以为原住民都去了寄宿学校而且都是强迫的,目的何在呢? +2
              • 那时候的寄宿学校病死率都不低,小说《简爱》一开始就描述了简爱在英国寄宿学校的好友海伦病死的场景,那个时代儿童死亡率很高,常见死因包括肺结核,脑膜炎,阑尾炎之类,在家甚至更高,因为学校还有医务室可以直接治疗,当然在家传染性疾病会少些。 +1
        • 酋长是奴隶主吗,能替其他人作主?
          • 原住民那个组织,酋长实际上就是一切法理的基础,类似于我们现在投票选举,得票高的就自然获得法理的支持当选;但是原住民那里不投票,一切按照酋长的意思办;这就是现实,没办法 +2
            • 跟当年从非洲酋长手里购买黑奴一样不具有正当性
              • 一个是卖黑奴,一个是要自己的子民去学习现代文明,酋长和酋长之间区别还是蛮大的;其实,根据常识去推断,一个有如此远见,抛弃禁锢主动让自己子民去学习先进文明,绝对不是一个可以容忍自己孩子被外人虐待的酋长;
                当然这是我将心比心,具体原始资料我找了一批,等阅读完毕会发一系列的总结上来
                • 民主!!现在加拿大学校搞某些活动,都要征得家长书面同意;你应该经历过吧
      • 不是老爱说人权大于啥啥吗?强制算不算明目张胆的侵犯人权啊?不是老说民主么?办强制性的寄宿学校这样涉及家家户户的大事,有没有经过土著们的公投啊? +1
        • 反思过去的错误,才能不断地进步。
    • 前几年炒得啥原住民女人被杀失踪的事情,其实绝大部分凶手都是原住民,结果智忧党弄个啥inquery,硬是栽赃给了白人。就像现在,寄宿学校有问题的话,罪魁祸首是当时加拿大政府,包括智忧党匪首的养父,教会只是受民主政府委托办学而已,却成了罪魁祸首,被烧了很多教堂 +5
    • 这个主动显然是你瞎猜胡扯的,就算有也是很少的一部分,原住民都是部落,根本没有任何统一的组织去主动,原住民对教育没那么重视,更多的可能是加拿大政府给部分原住民提供教育资源,最后 慢慢演变成对全部原住民的强制,最后成为了政府灭绝文化的工具
    • 这就跟说中共“解放”了中国一样可笑。
      • 按楼主的说法,日本侵略中国杀死中国人也是中国主动的,也是有积极意义的,当然如果这事情是中共做的,比如中共在西藏新疆做法,楼主肯定180度转弯
        • 基本都是唯心主义,跟老毛一样。
        • 我并不同情新疆,这些人在2009年75对汉人的大屠杀之后俺就完全放弃对其任何的同情
          • 没人在乎你是否同情,只看你是不是双标
    • 加拿大是1867年成立的, +1
      也就是confederation。联邦政府的全国性的residential school 是从1880年代开始的,在此之前,有类似的地方的residential school,是从1830年开始的,是教堂建的。而这之前,教堂从1600年代就开始为原住民建学校了。也就是说所谓加拿大政府的residential school 是从大概1883年开始的。The Canadian government pursued this policy of cultural genocide because it wished to divest itself of its legal and financial obligations to Aboriginal people and gain control over their land and resources. If every Aboriginal person had been ‘absorbed into the body politic,’ there would be no reserves, no Treaties, and no Aboriginal rights.
      • 那可能是我记错了应该是1870年左右,原帖懒得去找了,英文原帖也是首先痛斥寄宿学校,bala bala说一大堆,但是中间带出的这段历史资料让我大吃一惊,原来寄宿学校是原住民酋长和政府合作建立的,目的是让原住民摆脱几乎原始社会的生活,融入现代文明
        • 目的最终没有达成
        • 联邦的residential school system 是加拿大政府一手建立的,
          教堂具体操作,目的是把原住民强行纳入白人的系统,不让他们独立。I want to get rid of the Indian problem. I do not think as a matter of fact, that the country ought to continuously protect a class of people who are able to stand alone… Our objective is to continue until there is not a single Indian in Canada that has not been absorbed into the body politic and there is no Indian question, and no Indian Department, that is the whole object of this Bill. 这段话是负责原住民事物和residential school 的加拿大官员说的,白字黑字的记载。所有原住民孩子都要去residential school 以前是加拿大通过的法律 Indian Act 中的。
    • 你很认真要跟别人讲道理,然而对那些被洗脑且没有求知欲的人,不过是对牛弹琴而已,他们只能理解一个黑白分明的答案,对任何复杂的现象都无法理解 +4
      • 嗯,是,你看看匿名回我帖子的,大段大段背诵国内中学政治课本反帝反封建八股文的回帖;这些人和思考没关系,完全是条件反射 +4
        • 你要想讨论原住民的各种问题,我有空倒是可以写得更详细一下,当然只代表我的个人看法 +3
          • 好啊,我也在找这段历史的原始资料,书信,日记等等;找到一些,这几天抽空会读一读 +1
            • Letter from Father James McGuire requesting the Department of Indian Affairs to authorize an increase in enrolment because of the number of parents wanting to have their children admitted to the Kamloops Indian Residential School +1


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        • 去年去NEWFOUNDLAND的ROOM, 一个多媒体的关于NEWFOUND的展厅,有很大一部分是关于RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL, 有大量的史料包括照片,当年住宿孩童的STATEMENTS, 可以说是毁誉各半,有很喜欢的,有很厌恶的,像任何事情,媒体完全将舆论带偏了。
          • 现在寄宿学校被描述得跟个灭绝集中营一样,什么谋杀孩子之类的,而且打压不同意见者,加拿大女教授Frances Widdowson因为反对关于寄宿学校和BLM的主流叙事就被开除了 +2
          • 我目前能找到的当年原始照片,孩子们都是衣着整洁,很有礼貌,生气活现的样子;当然我知道这有可能都是摆拍,所以我也很希望能看到相反场景的照片,因为根据主流媒体的报道,这完全是灭绝人性的集中营,没有不透风的墙,总会有反应真实场景很凄惨的照片流出来 +2
            • 我列出的数据表明,到了1950年只有10%去了寄宿学校,其中受虐待者也是少数,那么原住民今天的酗酒自杀,就是这么一个零头的零头造成的?宣传这种白人灭绝原住民的理论,对原住民的发展有好处?毕竟他们还要跟白人共同生活。全面推广这种加深种族隔阂的理论的目的何在? +1
            • 我在NEWFOUNDLAND看到的照片也是一样,小孩子一个个穿着得体整齐,精神面貌跟现在小孩的每年的YEARBOOK差不多,而且还贴出了小孩的一日三餐,营养搭配充足,还有各种各样的体育活动的抓拍。在我身边的一对白人老夫妇感叹,看来RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL也是有好有坏啊。 +1
              • 哈哈,当时不但进某些寄宿学校要上waitlist,一战时期物资紧张,而寄宿学校吃住免费,政府还担心原住民家长为了减轻自己负担更要打破头挤进来呢。
          • 我再给你举个例子,鄂伦春族在放弃传统方式后很多人酗酒而死,200多人中就有60多人酗酒而死,难道也是因为寄宿学校?如今政府培养他们后代回山,但后代却不肯因为山下日子更舒适,转型期确实会有难度,加拿大现在是故意延长这个转型期,等于在杀死更多的原住民。 +2
      • 看楼上各位讨论了一两天,俺就想问一下:你们都有读过相关的资料吗?比如与原住民寄宿学校相关的回忆书籍资料,还有官方在8年前成立了有关真相与和解的调查组织所发表的系列文件吗?没有的话,所做出的判断有可能是片面的,或基于特例的印象。
        • 我好像已经列了很多数据你都没看到吗?另外,可不要把真相与和解组织发表的文件太当真,那个是有明确政治任务的。当然信不信由你了。紧急令的调查结果不也是土豆所作所为都合法吗?
          • 俺有一些相关的回忆书籍以及TRC(Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada)的最终调查报告以及呼吁书....也有对TRC调查报告质疑的书:Truth and Indignation Canadas Truth and Reconciliation Commission on Indian Residential Schools (by Ronald Niezen)
      • 这几本算是比较有影响和重要的读物,不知你是否看过:





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        • 你说下主要结论呗,没精力和时间看了
          • 一言难尽,简单的讲,就是回忆和控诉,官方展开了大规模的调查,质疑文章认为情况也有复杂的成分,不能一刀切,但俺个人认为,学校将学童与家庭强制分离、校内禁止与土著相关的语言和文化,孩子的生死甚至连一些父母都不知...这些不是种族灭绝又是啥? +1
            • 只有20%的孩子被送进寄宿学校,很多还是家长自愿,甚至还有waitlist,而且有些学校还雇佣了土著语老师跟孩子说土著语,这个种族灭绝能力太差了吧 +1
              • 你说的这种情况并非是全部,或许是部分或个案....读读这本书吧:A national crime the Canadian government and the residential school system, 1879 to 1986 (by Milloy, John S), 作者的依据很多就是来自公开的及官方资料:

                A national crime the Canadian government and the residential school system, 1879 to 1986

                References
                Primary Sources
                C.O. 42 Colonial Office [held by the Public Records Office – P.R.O.]

                RG 10 Indian Affairs [held by the National Archives of Canada – N.A.C.]

                RG 85 Northern Affairs [held by the National Archives of Canada]

                MG 26A The Macdonald Papers [held by the National Archives of Canada]

                MG 27I The E. Dewdney Papers [held by the National Archives of Canada]

                INAC-DIAND Files [stored at the Department of Indian Affairs’ Headquarters in Hull, Quebec], which come under the Privacy Act restrictions

                Anglican Archives, Toronto

                Presbyterian Archives, Toronto

                United Church Archives, Toronto

                Deschatelets Archives, Ottawa

                Published Primary Sources and Secondary Sources
                Adams, D. “Before Canada: Toward an Ethnohistory of Indian Education.” History of Education Quarterly 28, no. l (1988).

                Adams, I. “The Lonely Death of Charlie Wenjack.” Maclean’s 80, no. 2 (February 1967).

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                ...............

                • 张口就是crime,这种不读也算了
                  • 人家写书就是参考了那一大堆的资料后才写的,你要不先读一下所列的那些参考资料或逐一批驳?但你也得有依据才行,你有些啥依据呢?
                    • 你这些帖子留着给别人看看你的辩驳能力吧。
                      • 说了半天,俺已经举出了一大堆的资料,而你拿出些什么来了?就凭嘴说?如果俺说是你自己杜撰的,你又如何反驳呢?
                        • 哈哈哈,列出书名就算是资料了,连引文都没有,原来你这样写论文的啊。我谈的东西都是有出处的,原始书信我都贴给网友了,我怕你反驳吗?跟你谈学术真是掉价,你自己玩吧。
            • 我记得1980年代的加拿大总理克雷蒂安曾经就是负责印第安人事务的,他对寄宿学校是持正面看法的,莫非这小子应该被打倒?
              • 还有一点大家了解英国寄宿学校吗?几百年来盛行各种虐待包括强奸,连查尔斯在寄宿学校也饱受欺凌留下创伤,For generations of boys, sexual abuse was part of the everyday cruelty of boarding school,大家没意识到寄宿学校的缺陷不一定是针对原住民的?
                • 寄宿学校允许学童说他们族裔的语言吗?光这一条,土著就与西人不同,语言文化的禁忌就有分别。而这些对于年幼的学童就是强制中断切割了族裔的文化/传统,也是属于灭绝的范畴...
                  • 首先加拿大并不是所有寄宿学校都禁止土著语言,其次绝大多数土著孩子并没有去寄宿学校,最后很多英式教会学校包括中国的一些教会学校当年也禁止本国语言,只是为了让大家学好英文,这在当时是一种教育方针
                    • 有不同的寄宿学校,这里讨论主要是针对土著开办的,仅限于课堂禁止与全面严格禁止是有区别的,哪怕在课后在私下也禁止那客观效果就是完全禁绝族裔的语言文化!另外,寄宿学校本身是有容量的和需要财力支撑的,所以每所学校的学生数不是无上限的....
                      • 加拿大政府并不想搞寄宿学校,从这一点已经证明他们并不打算禁绝土著文化,只不过走读学校办不了那么多,因为原住民居住分散,我已经说了有些寄宿学校甚至雇了土著语老师跟孩子说土著话,更证明至少政府不在乎这些
                        • 呵呵,关注一下细节吧:如果很多土著儿童从小在土著圈里出生长大,除了土著话啥话都不会,如果没有会土著话的老师作为中介和入门教导,你咋教啊?!!
                          • 不雇土著老师你会说不让孩子说土著语,雇了你说也没安好心,既然寄宿学校操这么多心,你还觉得他们打算搞种族灭绝,那就没什么可谈的了,
                            • 是否打算搞种族灭绝那或许还有个动机的探讨空间,但百年后的结果与客观事实就摆在那,与灭绝有何不同?
                              • 鄂伦春族也大量死亡,你觉得也是因为种族灭绝?
                                • 相比北美土著的人口变化,鄂伦春族的人口数和变化是多少?在其历史上,有其它族裔或外力势力强行介入后代教育或被圈在一个非常狭小地盘里令其死亡吗?
                                  • 你先告诉我加拿大土著的人口变化吧。加拿大政府根本无心搞寄宿学校,说了那么多你还扯什么强行圈养令其死亡已经证明你不是在讨论问题了,看来你的书都是白读了
                                    • Wiki:加拿大印地安人寄宿学校系统
                                    • Wiki:Canadian Indian residential school system
                                      • 随便贴点书名和链接就算是论证过程?这水平也太水了吧。
                                        • 你先拿出依据来逐一批驳这些东西再说,依据在哪里?别光拿嘴说,ok?
                                          • 别人都是读了资料列举出来讨论问题,你自己都说不清啥东西还让别人辩驳,看样子你那一大堆书名和资料自己都没读过,你继续杠吧,让大家看笑话好了,我可没时间跟你扯。
                                            • 你连些依据都拿不出来,讨论个啥?你举的实例别人也可以解读为您杜撰的有何不可?俺拿出来的那些依据/资料都是可以找到的,有的网上就有,书店、图书馆里有,而你所说的又如何证明呢?
                                              • 哈哈哈,列出书名就算是资料了,连引文都没有?没有段落?没有页码?你是真傻还是假傻?我谈资料都是具体段落贴给网友的,你都不知道?跟你谈学术真是掉价,你自己玩吧。
              • 加拿大1996年才关了最后一所寄宿学校,十几年后才由Harper政府做出第一次道歉,当然八十年代的总理认为residential school 是正确的。而且加拿大八十年代的总理之一是Trudeau他爹老Trudeau,他是著名的反对原住民的自治,支持residential school的加拿大总理之一。
        • 你应该知道你列出的第一本书只是一部小说,并不是真的回忆录或日记吧。 +1
          • 那是给小学生看的简易读物,但即使是小说也是基于历史背景的,不是纯杜撰的,否则出版社都早被骂死了....
            • 现在谁敢骂政治正确的小说啊,相反,有女教授说寄宿学校也没那么糟反而丢了教职,所以这个问题在学术界已经不允许讨论了,就这氛围还谈什么真相 +1
              • 你忘了:土著的文化太落后,文字/书本及历史叙述方面,西方白人(殖民者)一直是强势至今,有关土著的历史真相的话语权和舆论传播,几百年来一直是西人掌控的,土著有个屁?
                • 我不懂你是什么意思?土著有个屁,所以现在政治正确就可以纠枉过正了?
                  • 俺说“土著有个屁?”指的是:在文化媒体及舆论传播方面,土著能与占据主流的西人相比吗?土著几乎等于啥都没有,第三者还不是从西方媒体和相关平台知道一些信息,而这些东西是掌控在西人手里的!
                    • 现在白人更是全面控制土著的话语了啊,你没意识到吗?你真以为现在土著可以发出声音了?你没意识到他们的声音是被操控的,多大多小都是随时可以调节的?我说了我是跟他们共同相处的,我看到太多黑幕。 +1
        • 没看过,但是我正在看一些其他的资料,你列的这些书我会挑一些看看,交叉验证;
          • 最重要的是要看早期的资料,因为自批斗寄宿学校运动以来,很多书籍的客观性都已无法保证。问题是其实不看也知道,有好的回忆,也有坏的回忆,然而现在好的回忆已经没几个人敢写了,写了也未必能出版
            • 上面列的书有的较早,并非都是成立了TCR后才出版的,像Shingwauk's Vision: A History of Native Residential Schools是90年代写的。另外,你可能忽略了一个基本事实:土著相对西人是绝对的弱势,文化传播及舆论媒体根本无法与西白比,话语权方面几百年来一直是被碾压的!
              • 你真没意识到现在这一套还是白人话语?我前面已经说的很清楚,现在这一套才是在摧毁原住民,这是一种很巧妙的操纵术,你没听说过grievance industry?
                • 白人操纵双重和多重标准一直是很拿手的,这个当然知道啊,翻手为云、覆手为雨,有何奇怪的?核心就是为了某种利益!但被伤害及利用的都是代价,土著就是代价!一直是,现在可能还是!
                  • 你知道就好,客观评价寄宿学校对原住民是有益无害的,因为他们可以move on继续生活,但原住民能好好生活并不是白人的目的,相反,能够长期操控他们包括他们的痛苦才是目的,只不过很多人意识不到这一点,甚至好心办坏事,推波助澜
                    • 另外,你们在讨论时还忽略了一点:传染病!当年有的病毒是白人从欧洲带来北美的,白人本身不少已经染过或有了抗体,而土著没有,所以土著得病后死亡率远高于白人,这也是死亡率高的重要原因!而白人因利益关系是乐于见其染病自生自灭的
                      • 这也是你先入为主的想象,传染病是互相的,白人也被土著传染了梅毒,寄宿学校的管理方天主教为了给孩子看病花了很多心思,没你想的那么恶毒
                        • 俺上面说的是想起了另外一本书《传染病的文化史》(A History of Medicine by Lois N.
                          Magner) 里面有提到欧洲人把天花患者用过的毛毯送给美洲土著,来使他们感染病毒


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                          • 看书多是好事,但光看书不思考也不成啊,加拿大跟西班牙对土著的政策天壤之别,土著跟加拿大一直是盟友关系,共同抗美,西班牙干的事情,直接扯到加拿大未免跨度太大
                            • 俺所说的:“当年有的病毒是白人从欧洲带来北美的,白人本身不少已经染过或有了抗体,而土著没有,所以土著得病后死亡率远高于白人”,且不论病毒是谁带来的,那是不是事实或合理的推理呢?当年对病毒的认识和抗疫哪能与现在相比?当年的"盟友"咋落为今日的境地?
                              • 这个跟加拿大寄宿学校有关系吗?你有证据证明加拿大开寄宿学校就是为了要把传染病传给孩子?
                                • “乐于见其染病自生自灭”,意思是说故意传染给孩子?是你曲解了吧?说的是白人将这些北美原本没有的病毒带入,而土著一旦传染之后,比白人死亡率更高,在美国不再成为共同的敌人之后,土著已不是昔日的盟友了,白人打心眼里就轻视/歧视土著....你咋理解的呀?
                                  • 乐见其染病这个”乐“字什么意思你不懂?你先把”乐见“的证据拿给我看看。歧视就等于种族灭绝?那加拿大华人遭歧视也是白人要搞种族灭绝?行了,你这个水平我也领教了,你想做杠精你自己玩吧。
                                    • 客观事实和后果等同于种族灭绝,而这种事情的根源或动机未必一定是故意灭绝,但歧视是杠杠滴!