argument here -rotman(rotman) @卡尔加里华人论坛:卡尔加里枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Calgary

枫下茶话 / 社会 / 凶手会是什么人？大家帮着想想，警察里华人不多，可能难以理解中国人的心理呢！似乎不是专业绑票，很象是留学生，年轻人干的－风头太大，吓坏了，就撕票了。估计与媒体声势太大有直接关系。 -whom(别拿俺们村长不当干部); 2004-3-28 {1117} (#1663093@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛我以为凶手不是想直接杀害东岳。否则没有必要绑票。应该是事后发现无法收场，才撕票。

如果是专业绑票的，一定会在现场留下“do not call the police”的指令。字条也好，流言也好，在墙上喷漆也好。因为家长发现孩子不见的第一反映一定是找，而找就会立刻将消息扩大，造成“不报警都不行”的局面，而这种局面恰恰在张家发生了。说明凶手不回控制局面，连自己的要求都没提出来，就被报警了。

另外，凶手一定没有对Cecilia做“隐藏”，这应该是撕票的第二个原因－即使凶手放了东岳，东岳可以立即指认凶手。而小东岳非常可能认识凶手，这对凶手是一个更大的威胁。应该说这也是凶手考虑不周的结果。也说明凶手可能一时冲动，没有周全计划，甚至利用自己认识东岳的条件拐骗东岳。

第三，媒体的声势浩大，使得凶手惊慌失措。由于没有精心准备，一旦事态闹大，应该没有心理承受能力，被逼到死路，只好下毒手，试图杀人灭口。

所以非常象一个年轻，没有社会经历，认识东岳的中国人干的。本来一时冲动，想绑票，结果媒体闹大了，凶手心理受不了，于是撕票。我觉得凶手非常可能已经逃出境了。

附，对于说绑东岳是绑错了，所以撕票的可能性表示怀疑。因为似乎凶手非常熟悉张家环境，没有道理是绑错了，如果是破门而入，强行绑架，到可能绑错，这种悄悄绑的，而且似乎东岳认识的，非常不象绑错了。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

媒体杀人 -benii(搬运工); 2004-3-28 (#1663097@0)

如果媒体不报道又会有人说加拿大人只关心自己的孩子，外来移民人家懒得理会... 我认为问题关键在于提高道德，不要为了几个小钱杀人害民，钱可以挣，生命只能一次，虽然那时别人的，也可贵啊 -leo_yue(伙计); 2004-3-30 {98} (#1664528@0)
你的其他很多观点我很同意，这个有些偏激，而且'媒体杀人' - 没有可操作性，不能判媒体谋杀罪成立吧~，

看来在报警前预留24-48小时来自行寻找失踪人员是很有必要的！！！ -camryv6(X!!!); 2004-3-28 (#1663125@0)

这东西没准，Holly Jones那次如果马上就进行大规模搜捕，没准就活下来了 -happy30s(goodluck); 2004-3-29 (#1663281@0)

最大的可能就是报复行凶. 我一直认为一定有知情人. 警方的结论是凶手随意的行动, 纯粹放屁. 事隔这么久, 知情人若闭口, 此案要破, 悬! -go_canada(TTC); 2004-3-28 {170} (#1663152@0)
谁和张家这么大的仇?
本人估计: 1, 被房东责骂过的租房者或其狐朋狗友. 2, 在张家办的学校里的和其有纠纷学生或教师. 3, 同行业的竞争者或其雇佣的帮凶.
不论什么, 一定有知情人.

I partly agree with you. Further more there are 2 suspecious points in this case: -callmenobody(Subtle Smile); 2004-3-30 {1299} (#1664566@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. The killer broke the window at night and kipnaped girl. The Parents didnt hear and didnt woke up by the noise of broking-window. That means the parents didnt realize and didnt think they will have such doom at that period or that term. According to www.51.ca, Mr. Zhang is a programmer in Canada, and he had immigrated here about 6--7 years. At that time, girl was only 2--3 years old. Mr. Zhangs may not make anyone angry in Canada, because he is only a programmer. Probably the renter may take avenge on him. This posibility is the least, because the renter dare not take such risk. Even he intended to do, he wouldnt did it by himself. How the girl dispear with the noise of braking-window? How the killer climbed up the roof and intruded into house without disturbing renters or the Parents? This is a critical point. It is obviously, that the killer knew the family very well. It is obviously that killer spent a long time for it.

2. The girl's body was found 50 km afar from and west to her home. It had been covered by snow for a long time. She was kipnaped 5 months ago. If the kidnaping was for money, she should be hide far from her home. It was not easy to do with a car though. We could initially judge that the case was a murdering. Killer never think about the money.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Who would like to analysis the case with me? -callmenobody(Subtle Smile); 2004-3-30 (#1665223@0)

一、几乎肯定是寻仇，不是为钱；二、肯定是认识的人干的；三、不能说张氏夫妇有所隐瞒，其实是警方与他们交流不利。 -workopolis(﹡ 枫树下のCOYOTE ﹡); 2004-3-30 (#1665249@0)

now, my first initial judgement is confirmed and certified ; This case isnt a kipnapping for money but a revenge. Now I would rather extend my further assumption : -callmenobody(Subtle Smile); 2004-3-31 {1157} (#1666308@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛According to Toronto Sun, police found a knife near the house. Let me image, the killer used this knife to brake the window at that night. Obviously he knew which room the girl sleep, (as the paper mentioned), and he knew which window has problem or he had asked Sb. made the window had problem. Otherwise how come he had such confidence to brake the window without disturbing anyone of the residents!? And of cause this killer had shortcoming, because he was careless and droped his knife nere the house.
That means, there must be Sb. did something on the window, so that the careless killer was confident to brake and intrude the window!
Who had the chance to enter Zhangs' rooms, observed the enviroments, made tricks on the window?

Might any firms, individuals, groups would be suspections?

There must be one who ever lived in Zhang's house, had investigated Zhangs rooms and their behaviors, happies. There must be one who pretent to fix up something for Zhang's house. There must be one who followed them and confirmed their behaviors all day long... Who are they? Who is the boss of them?

We shall see.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

I don't think he/they use window to entry the room, that's frog -ivy_sh(呼吸着的青草); 2004-3-31 {247} (#1666327@0)
there has risk to waking the girl when they broke the window. So I think they enter the room by KEY or somebody open the door for them. after they catch the girl to the car, then back broke the window to protend there are someone outside did this.

多伦多太阳报来自警方的消息来源称，警方相信，至少两人通过主层的后窗强行入室，并从侧门离开。另外，赎金不再被认为是动机。 -callmenobody(Subtle Smile); 2004-3-31 (#1666444@0)

initially, really don't want to comment on ur sayings...but... -rotman(rotman); 2004-3-29 {525} (#1664129@0)
but i really could not tolerate your unsupported sayings.

1. what is the relationship between a inexperienced kidnapper and a visa student? have you ever kidnapped anyone?

2. your assumption is that all immigrants DO have extensive experience in kidnapping people?

3. More importantly, i don't see any objection here against your ungrounded preposition. that is really a miserable thing. It appears to me that all tragedies now are ascribed to chinese visa students.

4. poor chinese and poor chinese immigrants.

此事现在关键不是争论凶手身份。且不说我只讨论“可能”而非定论，就算我真错怪哪“类”人，你也不必如此神经过敏。找凶手是正事。难道说凶手是人，所有的人就应该群起而功我，说我descriminate人类?凶手总要是某个类型，请勿对号入座！ -whom(别拿俺们村长不当干部); 2004-3-29 {1142} (#1664209@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛１，学生－社会经验不丰富，遇事容易冲动，作出错误判断。留学签证，由于无家无业，流动方面，更容易不考虑后果。专门绑票的则代表另一个极端。当然还有夹在中间，有处事经验，但没有绑票经验的，但是此案的特征看来冲动性强，理智计划差，因此更象没有经验的人所为。再强调，只是可能，我无法指名道姓，只能总结凶手特征。请勿对号入座。

２，除非你先天将移民与留学生对立起来，无法得出你的“所有移民都有绑架小孩的经验”的结论。凶手的不理智，缺乏计划和惊慌失措说明极有可能凶手涉世不深。再强调我们是在讨论凶手可能是哪类人，而不是“哪类人一定是凶手”。比如凶手８成是中国人，你是不是应该立刻抗议歧视？什么人都可能出凶手，关键是这个案子是什么人做的。

３，"all tragedies now are ascribed to chinese visa students"更是神经过敏。我们在讨论谁杀害了一个天真无辜的小女孩，完全没有提到“all tragedies”是你自己扩大话题呀，当然大家都不认为有问题，只有你觉得有问题，因为问题根本是只有你在说“all tragedies”别人都在讨论Cecilia案的一个凶手而已。

４，agree, not only are Chinese immigrants poor, there are people out there trying to divert the topic to "who cause all the troubles" while we are here desperately trying to find out who killed THIS innocent little girl.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

argument here -rotman(rotman); 2004-3-29 {2889} (#1664248@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛１，学生－社会经验不丰富，遇事容易冲动，作出错误判断。留学签证，由于无家无业，流动方面，更容易不考虑后果。专门绑票的则代表另一个极端。当然还有夹在中间，有处事经验，但没有绑票经验的，但是此案的特征看来冲动性强，理智计划差，因此更象没有经验的人所为。再强调，只是可能，我无法指名道姓，只能总结凶手特征。请勿对号入座。

-- most immigrants are socially extensive experienced? what is ur standard of experienced? There are numerous gun shots in the city, i don't really think they are related to Visa students, what is your comments on those cases then? It sounds that you are really experienced in kidnapping and assaulting, please either choose to join the police or choose to be an author of detective story.

-- don't really want to involve in your Cultural Revolution experience, most ur sayings and behaviours reminded me of that frenzy period.

２，除非你先天将移民与留学生对立起来，无法得出你的“所有移民都有绑架小孩的经验”的结论。凶手的不理智，缺乏计划和惊慌失措说明极有可能凶手涉世不深。再强调我们是在讨论凶手可能是哪类人，而不是“哪类人一定是凶手”。比如凶手８成是中国人，你是不是应该立刻抗议歧视？什么人都可能出凶手，关键是这个案子是什么人做的

-- it is you who first charge Visa Student, check your sayings in the first post please.

-- I am upset b your link on "inexperienced " with "visa student". don't you see it? poor logic and poor english

-- 比如凶手８成是中国人，你是不是应该立刻抗议歧视？ of course, if this is presented on court, it is definitely an unsupported claim and will be called an "objection" by the attorney.

-- 什么人都可能出凶手, that is rite, but you didn't say so in the first post. next time, please 不要和陈太一样信口开河

3，"all tragedies now are ascribed to chinese visa students"更是神经过敏。我们在讨论谁杀害了一个天真无辜的小女孩，完全没有提到“all tragedies”是你自己扩大话题呀，当然大家都不认为有问题，只有你觉得有问题，因为问题根本是只有你在说“all tragedies”别人都在讨论Cecilia案的一个凶手而已

-- it is you who expanded the topic first, check your words in the first post again. What if i changed the title to : 凶手会是什么人？大家帮着想想，警察里华人不多，可能难以理解中国人的心理呢！似乎不是专业绑票，很象是刚来的中国新移民，没什么钱又不想去做LABOR －风头太大，吓坏了，就撕票了。估计与媒体声势太大有直接关系
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

４，agree, not only are Chinese immigrants poor, there are people out there trying to divert the topic to "who cause all the troubles" while we are here desperately trying to find out who killed THIS innocent little girl.

-- not only, but also, don't mess up with English, go back to LINC whatever to improve your language.

-- "there are people out there trying to divert the topic to "who cause all the troubles" ", next time, use Word to check grammar mistake first. it is not a sentence, learn how to compose a decent sentence first, then come to argue.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

无聊！最后一辩，不再和你纠缠了。请不要阶级斗争扩大化，请先多费心思在找到杀害Cecilia的凶手，等抓到凶手再如此关注你和你的群体的自身感受。 -whom(别拿俺们村长不当干部); 2004-3-29 {4870} (#1664334@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛１，学生－社会经验不丰富，遇事容易冲动，作出错误判断。留学签证，由于无家无业，流动方面，更容易不考虑后果。专门绑票的则代表另一个极端。当然还有夹在中间，有处事经验，但没有绑票经验的，但是此案的特征看来冲动性强，理智计划差，因此更象没有经验的人所为。再强调，只是可能，我无法指名道姓，只能总结凶手特征。请勿对号入座。

-- most immigrants are socially extensive experienced? what is ur standard of experienced（移民是要考察工作经验的，详情请见cic网站。经验是移民合格的一个重要因素）? There are numerous gun shots in the city, i don't really think they are related to Visa students［懂不懂all与one的区别？我说了多少回，这里讨论的是杀害Cecilia的凶手，不是讨论所有的案件。是你拼命在偷换概念，打击所有留学生，把所有案件归到留学生头上！再强调这里讨论的是“which one killed Cecilia”而"all students kill"的问题是你提的，根本与 Cecilia无关，纯粹是节外生枝！请不要在提出来扰乱视听！］, what is your comments on those cases then［no comments，我们在讨论谁会对Cecilia下毒手，你提出来的“numerous gun shots”与此无关，我们也无力涉及］? It sounds that you are really experienced in kidnapping and assaulting, please either choose to join the police or choose to be an author of detective story. ［如果对与抓住杀害Cecilia的凶手有帮助，我会考虑你的意见］

-- don't really want to involve in your Cultural Revolution experience, most ur sayings and behaviours reminded me of that frenzy period.［你的人身攻击工夫也坡得文革真传呀，上纲上线，问题扩大化都是那时候的刹手捡］

２，除非你先天将移民与留学生对立起来，无法得出你的“所有移民都有绑架小孩的经验”的结论。凶手的不理智，缺乏计划和惊慌失措说明极有可能凶手涉世不深。再强调我们是在讨论凶手可能是哪类人，而不是“哪类人一定是凶手”。比如凶手８成是中国人，你是不是应该立刻抗议歧视？什么人都可能出凶手，关键是这个案子是什么人做的

-- it is you who first charge Visa Student, check your sayings in the first post please.［哦，也修改一个你的语法错误哈，“Students" or "a Student"我仅仅是讨论是否可能是一个，注意一个，留学生做的，没有讨论是否全体留学生联合起来犯罪。所以请你澄清：我是否不能置疑“a student”也请你注意，我没有charge anyone, 更不要说"charge visa students”］

-- I am upset b your link on "inexperienced " with "visa student". don't you see it? poor logic and poor english ［比较一下留学签证和移民签证的要求，你就明白为什么说留学生多数缺乏社会经验。更不要说多数留学生年龄比较小，而移民多数都要在原住国工作过若干时间。］

-- 比如凶手８成是中国人，你是不是应该立刻抗议歧视？ of course, if this is presented on court, it is definitely an unsupported claim and will be called an "objection" by the attorney.［看电影不仔细吧？前面的判断是寻找凶手时候缩小范围的确步骤，当然不会出现在法庭上，所以律师们没有机会objection，你没看见新闻动不动说“凶手在逃，是一白人，男性”，在可以明确认定凶手的identity之前，使用其特征对其进行描述不仅合理合法，而且常见，不信你多看看新闻，或者去法庭告我一下］

-- 什么人都可能出凶手, that is rite, but you didn't say so in the first post. next time, please 不要和陈太一样信口开河［你提起的文革倒是贴切，说什么以前都要先“为人民服务”，我们在讨论什么人可能杀害无辜的Cecilia，你非要大家说“什么人都可能出凶手”。问题不在此，而在于你无法接受“留学生里可能出凶手，才费这么大劲跟我争辩。如果象你的要求“不要心口开河”，警察也不必办案了，都回家念“什么人都可能犯案”算了。讨论此一案，最后必然落实到一类人，但这并不能说明这类人都是坏人，而你却是禁止别人讨论此一凶手是否可能是你的同类。不能因为你是什么类的人，就禁止别人讨论某一个你的同人犯罪了呀！］

3，"all tragedies now are ascribed to chinese visa students"更是神经过敏。我们在讨论谁杀害了一个天真无辜的小女孩，完全没有提到“all tragedies”是你自己扩大话题呀，当然大家都不认为有问题，只有你觉得有问题，因为问题根本是只有你在说“all tragedies”别人都在讨论Cecilia案的一个凶手而已

-- it is you who expanded the topic first, check your words in the first post again. What if i changed the title to : 凶手会是什么人？大家帮着想想，警察里华人不多，可能难以理解中国人的心理呢！似乎不是专业绑票，很象是刚来的中国新移民，没什么钱又不想去做LABOR －风头太大，吓坏了，就撕票了。估计与媒体声势太大有直接关系
WHAT DO YOU THINK? ［逻辑思维！虽然中文没有单复数，你起码不应该混淆到如此地步，你理解成“凶手们都是留学生，这次风头太大下怀了，就撕票了。”］

４，agree, not only are Chinese immigrants poor, there are people out there trying to divert the topic to "who cause all the troubles" while we are here desperately trying to find out who killed THIS innocent little girl.

-- not only, but also, don't mess up with English, go back to LINC whatever to improve your language.

-- "there are people out there trying to divert the topic to "who cause all the troubles" ", next time, use Word to check grammar mistake first. it is not a sentence, learn how to compose a decent sentence first, then come to argue. ［暂时没有时间切磋英文，如果你乐意在此消磨时间，总比神经过敏阶级斗争扩大化好！］更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
WTF??? -fadeaway(stoopy); 2004-3-30 (#1664612@0)

建议警察以东岳家为原点,5公里为半径,查所有离开加国的所有的人(从失踪到现在),特别是20岁左右.查海关地记录准能找到杀人犯. -richardjia(ha); 2004-3-30 {32} (#1665753@0)
1)媒体打草惊蛇.2)凶手必逃出海关.

查到又能怎样？如果国内真的把凶手缉拿，只是交换老赖的有一个筹码。 -ttl(有羊肉没馍了); 2004-3-30 (#1665773@0)

差了，不交换在中国判才对，到加拿大还得养着他/她，不见那个叫什么的父母一定要求在中国判吗-----要的是死刑，你想看到他在加拿大给养一辈子？ -movingagain(搬家); 2004-3-30 (#1665787@0)

他又没在中国犯罪能抓吗？我是法盲啊 -ttl(有羊肉没馍了); 2004-3-30 (#1665807@0)

我也盲，不过我知道那家人求的是在中国执行死刑，不是另一个已经判刑了吗？我对这种富家子弟出来胡闹引出的人命案不大以为然，不关心 -movingagain(搬家); 2004-3-30 (#1665827@0)

我现在都觉得那个叫陈太的没有说错，瞧瞧我们大陆的移民 -movingagain(搬家); 2004-3-30 (#1665832@0)

大陆过来的移民多数没什么真材实学斑竹你也一起看看，想删就删，删的话就说明你就是这样的人 -rotman(rotman); 2004-4-1 {300} (#1667505@0)
只会攻击留学生
欺负自己人
为了一点点小小的比如陈太的言论感到恼怒和气愤

敢问现在还在读LINC的有多少人
还在申请OSAP不愿意还的有多少人
多少人在国内贪污过，受贿过，拿过公家的财物过
多少人制作过假学历假文凭假成绩单
多少人为了免面试去考雅思的时候看了新东方的真题

7~~~

别臭美了
好好反省一下吧

bullshit !!! -holly999(酒肴肴); 2004-4-5 (#1672907@0)

Now, the case has been extended, partly match my assumption. -callmenobody(Subtle Smile); 2004-4-1 {2379} (#1667688@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛自上周末9岁儿童张东岳被证实遇害后，皮尔区警方凶杀组正联合多伦多警方调查张东岳失踪案的小组一起共同工作。据城市电视CP24台报导：警方坚信在曾租住在张家的25名租客中，最少有两名的嫌疑人有犯罪嫌疑。

与早前所报导的消息所不同的，是9岁儿童张东岳失踪当晚并非就寝在她自己的卧房里，而是将自己的卧室让给来加拿大探亲的外公，自己搬到客房里去睡。警方相信：绑架张东岳的罪犯对张家情况以及住房的结构都相当熟悉，警方目前正重点调查曾租住在张家的租客，这些租客大部分都是张东岳母亲开办的英文补习学校的学生，从登记记录看，有些学生用的是假名字，有的学生只有姓名和年龄，造成了追查的困难，在25名租客中，至今仍有未寻获行踪者，这将是警方重点调查的嫌疑对象之一。

多伦多太阳报来自警方的消息来源称，警方相信，至少两人通过主层的后窗强行入室，并从侧门离开。另外，赎金不再被认为是动机。

另方面，在案发当日张家侧门外发现一把刀子，警方相信这有可能是案发在实施绑架时使用过的，警方已搜集相关的D.N.A.样本协助破案。警方呼吁：有知情者请与警方联系，电话是：(905) 795-7712 。

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

皮尔区警方昨天公布热线电话，希望公众为侦破张东岳遇害一案提供线索。张东岳遗体被发现之后，寻找真凶的工作已经迅速扩展到国际范围，包括美国联邦调查局、香港皇家警察等均被要求提供合作，而中国大陆警方亦可能被要求协助调查。

法医专家表示，就算是张东岳死亡多日，仍可通过对其遗骸的检验发现重要线索。

有报道指称，警方现时正寻找两名可疑男子。调查组已经通告国际刑警组织及美国、香港警方，中国大陆警方亦有可能被要求协助调查。

目前主导破案工作的皮尔区警方仍不愿多谈案情。亦有消息指，凶手可能已经经皮尔逊国际机场离开加国。

众所周知，在发现张东岳被绑架的当天清晨张家曾经收到两通神秘电话，而打出电话的两处公用电话亭均离机场不远。

有传言，机场海关及安省与美国交界的边检处已被要求协助清查过去数月的过境资料，以便发现可能与此案有关的可疑人物，特别是往返于港加两地、以现金购买机票的人士。

皮尔区警方于昨天晚上结束了在对密西沙加市发现张东岳遗体的地点的搜查，至今未公布张东岳的死因及死亡时间。

但验尸官麦可里兰(DR. BARRY MCLELLAN)表示，相信可以从遗体中发现许多有用的破案线索。

他表示，就算是通过对遗体组织的检查仍可发现有用线索。还有一些其它有效的检验，如对血液或某些身体部位进行毒物分析。

他表示，就算是死者发现时已成残骸，尸检将最终提供许多有用的东西有助于解答张东岳死亡之迷。另外亦有消息证实，在现场没有发现任何衣物。

皮尔区警方昨天正式公布一条热线电话，号码是905-795-7712，希望公众对破案提供有效线索。

如果希望匿名提供线索的人士，可致电灭罪热线1-800-222-TIPS/8477。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
I assume that the 2 kills didnt depart from North America to China. -callmenobody(Subtle Smile); 2004-4-5 {1048} (#1672851@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛再有报载传闻称，在发现小东岳被绑架当天清晨张家曾经收到两通神秘电话，而打出电话的两处电话亭均离机场不远，凶手可能已经从皮尔逊国际机场离开加国，故机场海关被要求协助清查过去数月的过境资料，以便发现可能与此案有关的可疑人物，特别是往返于港加两地、以现金购买机票的人士。这也绝对也是警方在5个月前刚查案就得知，且应早已开始的调查程序，包括与国际警方合作，如果如今才想到去做，只能证明警方当初误判小东岳一直活着，且人还在加国。

The killers tried to tell us that they had leave toronto. If they really went back mainland, it was not hard to identify that clue should be tracked in mainland. That means Mr. Zhang would reaveal more things to police. It will be more easy to track the killers. Unless killers are stupid enough to prefer let police to track them, would they call twice before they depart at the airport. What was the real purpose for the two calls? Let's assume it was a lying.
Science it was a lying. Then killer might escape to US. through Niagra Fall. They had already have changed their names before. They are holding new passports...更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

@Calgary

argument here

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