本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛关键词：爱 婚姻 道德 利益 妥协 平衡
爱、婚姻和妥协让我们在理想与现实之间忧郁和徘徊。在爱的关系中，我们都希望能够被理想眷顾，但真正被理想眷顾的又有几人呢？我们如何才能在理想和现实之间找到并做到平衡呢？欢迎你参与由《婚外恋该不该来》引起的关于爱、婚姻和妥协的讨论，下面的对话就算是引玉之石。
说明1：《婚外恋该不该来》只是从一种角度、使用一种思维方法对婚外恋所引起的三角关系中的利益和道德进行的一种尝试性思考和分析，片面和狭隘不言自明。但是，几位对本话题感兴趣的网友却从不同的角度提出了自己的分析和观点，比之原文更有意义，也更有可读性。特将讨论内容汇集在一起，题目就叫《Love, Marriage and Compromise ?C 爱、婚姻与妥协》，与大家分享。
说明2：观点是随着观点人所处的角度、高度和采用的思维方式而变化的。我们欢迎对所有观点和分析进行讨论、质疑或者批评。但是，我们也提请朋友们注意：讨论的对象是观点和分析本身，而不是提出观点的人，请勿对观点人妄加猜测或评论，更杜绝一切谩骂污辱之辞。
说明3：希望朋友们在参与讨论时，能够尽量跳出非黑即白的是非标准。我们以为自己正确并不意味着别人就是错误。我们每一个人在做的，都是给社会给他人提供一种生活的参考模式；我们同时也在参考着别人的生活模式，结合自己的情况，根据自己的标准，确立和修改自己的生活模式。
说明4：本对话主要是英文，因为几位网友无法使用中文输入软件，出于对他们的尊重和沟通中用词的一致性，U-Turn的回复也是使用的英文。这一点在本对话的最后也有相关说明。对因此造成的阅读不便，表示歉意。
说明5：对本对话中涉及到的几位网友的发言，部分已经取得他们的同意和授权，还有几位未能联系上他们，（也许是所留联系方法错误的原因）。如果你们看到了这篇对话，对其中的发言有任何保留意见的话，请及时通知我，我会在第一时间按照你们的意见进行相应处理。
下面是对话的正文：
iQuest says:
Absolutely 谬误!!!
We are talking about human beings, how can the most advanced organic cells being rated as numbers like 1, 2, 3? If life is as simple as your thinking, the world would be a much better livable place..
If you need an excuse to have 婚外情, you don’t need to make such an effort to articulate a naive article. Go right ahead since you already have the pass as a Men- Isn’t “陈世美” thought in their brains somewhere already???
yuan yuan says:
You are smart, great and real love always need make balance, some time break is build a new balance with lots pain but worth to do it. Go ahead.
U-Turn says:
To iQuest:
This topic is absolutely a complicated one. What I tried to do was just to touch one of its diverse aspects, even not. It needs more cases and analysises.
To yuan yuan:
You are right. People must be aware that the love relationship and/or marriage is a dynamic balance and participants must adjust something to sustain the balance from time to time.
Mary says:
A little thought for the almost-40-year-old, not-married, and has-no-boyfriend-to-be-married girl in the topic: She’d better catch the time and get a baby of man. Having her own child is the destination of a woman. Her age couldn’t wait too long for her to complete this destination. Marriage is just the form of legal, the most important thing is 2 peoples have their own child. So, that girl can have a baby of that “great” man, who requests her to be his “lover”. Thus, there is no too much different as marrying him.
yuan yuan says:
If you and your spouse both know to adjust balance that is great. If try 5 years still not work out, stay lone is better, life is so short.
I believe great life is you have man who you love and he love you too. Also Mary she said is right women need have child women need make all the situation ready for have child and make sure child can get love and care from dad. Women should learn to be strong and independent have your child and child dad and your lover. If all can be together that is perfect, if can’t find love, we need find person who love child and want to gave you child. You need time to find love, but birth age once over, that will be so sad. Women we need love ourselves first the true love will come.
iQuest says:
In searching for the true meaning of LOVE between men and women, you will see in our society now the broken marriages, high divorce rates, cheating wives/husbands… so on and on, but don’t deny it that you do also see happy couples and happy marriages around you- some are your friends, your relatives, your co-workers…
If you have wondered why they are so happy in a marriage world- It is not because they happen to find the other half or they are lucky to find the other person they just fit each other so well, I don’t believe in that. What I truly believe is that happy couples they MAKE their marriage work themselves, they make the relationship goes on, it involves tremendous responsibility, compromise, communication and love without condition, and they grow the relationship together.
As simple as if you are given the most beautiful flower in the world, it will die eventually if you don’t water it, don’t put it under the sun and don’t take care of it.. Nothing comes easy, you want a better relationship, then go make your great effort and make it happen…
True love is build on the solid foundation of trust, responsibility, compromise, understanding, caring and belief!!
U-Turn says:
To Mary,
Your good thoughts have presumed that the lady F desired to have a baby in her life, however, the information of whether the lady F desires such is not available in the topic. Even though there is such a presumption, the lady F maybe prefers to have a child with both parents rather than to be a single mother. Additionally, whether or not marriage matters varies by people.
To yuan yuan,
Women need love themselves first, then the true love will come. It is a very good point.
To iQuest,
I totally agree with you that “True love is build on the solid foundation of trust, responsibility, compromise, understanding, caring and belief!!” Your have listed many variables in a marriage or love relationship that have to be in their places to make sure there is a good relationship. Unfortunately, not every person is aware of these factors and not every person who is aware can make these variables in their places, so problems come in their relationships.
Mary says:
Saying “bye” to M and find a marriage is the best for F. F is a girl with higher expectation on “future’s husband”, who exceeds her own “value”. She really needs to improve herself, so she can meet the expectation of the gentleman who meets her expectation. For short term solution, cosmetic surgery is a way to improve appearance (which is very important asset for a lady), for long term solution, improve personal capabilities.
yuan yuan says:
Extra-marital relationship shouldn’t happen. Once happened, you must let your spouse know that, that is hurt, but you have to do it, make sure every one be safe. Honesty is No.1 rules, three parts all need try to make work out. Out or stay or wait. no cheating.
M he is not right to keep both wife and F, that is cheating and pillage even F and wife both can tolerate him, time won’t last long. Don’t waste time and money, specially M you shouldn’t worry about how much will cost for breaking such family which can never work out. If M want to make fair for yourself, wife and F, you better be stay single until find person that is you really want.
Marriage is sacred, so be serious to go to have marriage.
F she has right to love M, but no right to break his family and cheat his wife. F she need take lots punishment for disturb his family. Time can prove that what is game what is true love.
Follow your heart, honest heart suffer all the punishment.
U-Turn says:
To Mary,
“She really needs to improve herself, so she can meet the expectation of the gentleman who meets her expectation.” This is the essence of the formula of the balance of both values. If the balance doesn’t exist, the relationship is difficult to be established, even though established, the relationship is difficult to survive in the lifetime unless the balance is made a reality by both efforts.
To yuan yuan,
A brilliant thought.
yuan yuan says:
If F she need true love, she need be independent, stand on the same platform (give love, not need help). This why only few marriage can last forever.
iQuest says:
What’ the secret of long lasting marriage, relationship and love??? This is a billionaire question… Just ask a simple question, do you love yourself every second, every minute, all day long, all year long and always? I don’t believe anybody can say yes. If you can’t even say you love yourself all the time and forever, how can it possibly happen that you will love somebody else forever and ever…
Come to marriage, you can’t always go with your heart, follow your passion. There is more involved than physical requirements. You also need listening, sympathy, communication, compromise, care and more… If you can’t commit yourself to this, then don’t go that far… Under the beautiful surface of marriage, there is more responsibility involved you could ever imagine. Don’t always admire the married life, the grass is not always greener on the other side. What is important to a being is to love yourself, love your life and live to the most of it… Want what you have now and being happy…
U-Turn says:
To yuan yuan,
Agree with you that being independent is the pre-condition for someone to love and to be loved.
To iQuest,
To make a man and a woman to come together is mainly because of their common or similar value views, not because of their physical matches so that one is willing to admit and appreciate the other, which is the incentive for them to enjoy communicating, staying, loving and caring each other, and also the motive for them to compromise and be patient with each other, which they think is worth it.
If in a relationship, one is always obligated, not willing to compromise and be patient, it indicates that there is no balance, the parties have to do something or adjust something to restore their balance in any form to save their relationship, otherwise, either the relationship will come to an end or one or even both of them will lose in their unbreathable relationship.
yuan yuan says:
Here have some interaction between love yourself and give love, Love yourself base on finally goal is want to be better person to give love, if you no time and resource love yourself you couldn’t improve yourself, that is can not have continuous energy for giving love.
I believe that “…Don’t go that far…”
Follow your heart base on after 5 years try hard save marriage still not work out. Follow your heart is not only physical parts also with soul parts, you are still miss that person, you have passion to spend time to know to care and share with that person, you still have lots resonance with that person, that heart you should follow. We are love ourselves is continuous give fresh blood to heart, passion and soul can be forever.
iQuest says:
Love somebody so deep, so profound and for ever! That is a beautiful thing and you should feel fortunate to have found someone worth this love, even though he or she doesn’t response back or love you back as well as you expect. Because it doesn’t matter, it is YOU who want to love him/her, it is YOU who is experiencing this strong feelings- follow your heart without asking for any expectations, enjoy your feelings to the most without asking for returns, that is the most important… Just letting go your emotions and letting go your heart.
Heart Broken sometimes? So what, I think heart is made from such a durable material so it can broke millions of times but will still recover… If you truly, deeply love someone, no condition should be attached to it… If you did ask for return, expect the love back from the other person, involve your little selfishness, how can you honestly tell yourself that the LOVE is true love???
U-Turn says:
To iQuest,
People need to love and to be loved.
Even if one loves the other without any condition, I would like to believe that the one must expect the other’s love. I admire the love because it is unconditional. However, one-side love is always, more or less, a burden for both sides. On the one hand, the loving person suffers while loving because he/she cannot obtain love from the other side. On the other hand, the loved person suffers too because he/she cannot give love to the loving person. So, the ideal love is that two persons both love each other without condition.
Unfortunately, in real life, quite a few people encounter such a problem whether they should choose to marry someone who loves them or to marry someone who they love because they couldn’t find someone who loves them and who they love, too. To expect less, one may find someone to marry when they are both interested in, but don’t love each other very much.
Love without condition is pure. However, balance is a requisite for a happy and steady relationship.
iQuest says:
Love should be unconditional. That’s the definition of this word: LOVE is wanting others to be happy. It is unconditional and it requires a lot of courage and acceptance (including self-acceptance). If you don’t achieve this, then that’s not TRUE love.
I agree that most of the marriages are not based on true love. It is more for life convenience than everything: kids, financial benefits, social pressures when you come to certain ages… People get married for their life convenience, not for the meaning of LOVE. If you truly love somebody, you don’t have to marry him/her in order to show your love. True love to somebody is to make him/her being HAPPY. Marriage has nothing to do with it…For example, if I am a true bird lover, I will let it fly in the sky looking for food rather than keep it in the cage with enough food because I know the bird will be happy to be free. If you love somebody truly, then thinking in his/her mind, being in his/her shoes, doing things to the most of his/her benefit…
Of course you don’t see the TRUE AND PURE LOVE often these days. But you can still find it in Mums’ eyes to their kids, in owner’s smiles to their dog/cat, in Lovers passionate kisses to each other…If you happen to be one of them who truly love somebody or being truly loved, being fortunate and being blessed!!!
U-Turn says:
To iQuest,
I agree with you that “True love to somebody is to make him/her being HAPPY” and being freer. Due to its strict meaning, “true love” is one-sided almost without exception.
To put “true love” aside, marriage, as a real relationship in life, has turned into a mutually beneficial partnership, which is also the definition in the eyes of law, even worse, a kind of compromise without other better alternatives between parties. This is life and “love” in life.
讨厌 says:
好好的一篇文章，结果评论却完全是英文的，讨厌。你们这些半了咯叽的中国英语。看来大家都是在上班时间来泡网的，所以没有中文输入法。你们利用老板的时间，来泡网就道德吗？
iQuest says:
If it is agreed that Marriage is defined as a legal partnership for mutual benefits, it is kind of “business” relationship. And you pay for it because nothing is for free. Going for the marriage world, you get the benefits it offers, at the same time, what do you pay for it? Your total freedom, your compromise with another person? your responsibility? But at the end of day, it is your own decision to buy or not. No one can force you. And as an adult, you have to be responsible with whatever reason you make.
As for love, it dose exit even if it is only one-sided.
U-Turn says:
To iQuest,
Marriage is treated just like a partnership relationship, especially while coming to the stage of divorce, because law is incapable to regulate the “true” love or even the motive and purpose behind one’s decision to enter into a marriage with someone else. Law just puts marriage in a simple way, mainly in the manner of feasible rights and obligations between parties.
That doesn’t mean it is the whole thing about marriage in the real life. In the real life, very few involve “true” love in their marriage while most involve compromises (or called “balance”) in various aspects of their marriage life. The compromise or balance can be in diverse ways in the marriage life. For example, both sides may compromise not to have sex with anybody else outside of the marriage even if one desires but he/she doesn’t want his/her partner to do the same thing, so he/she has to control him/herself in order to keep their relationship balanced. There is love which is the incentive for both sides to compromise, but not in the meaning of “true” love.
Except in the case of “true” love, relationship depends on balance to sustain, almost without exception.
回讨厌:
本来没有想回你的帖，甚至想要不要把你的回帖给删了。但又一想，你回帖本身就说明了你对该话题的兴趣、思考或困惑，而并无恶意，所以就你的帖略谈一点我的看法。
我的答复原则是：用中文回复中文，用英文回复英文。我认为这是对对方的一种尊重，英文好坏其实是另一回事，没有人会跑到这来学英语的。
至于大家是否是在上班时间来泡网（也许本话题就是某人的工作内容之一），是否没有中文输入法（也许有但懒得去转换），是否利用老板的时间（也许有人自己就是老板），我无法也无须揣测；至于是否道德，自然更在题外了。
yuan yuan says:
Sorry, I don’t have Chinese software, thank you understand and support.
iQuest says:
I enjoy this discussion not only because you get different views from different opinions, but also it makes myself think and search deeply. Sometimes I may change and revise my thinking during this search…The more you think, the clearer you see things as they really are.
I wish I could type in Chinese which will make it so easier to express your ideas. Too bad don’t know how.
Anyway, I hope more people could join this discussion and give your side of the stories.
yuan yuan says:
“You have to be responsible with whatever reason you make.” Yes, this is marriage one meaning?C marriage with his sociality’s attribute.
Good marriage with its first attribute - nature attribute and second attribute sociality.
Good marriage= love responsibility, SELF-DISCIPLINE, Sociality agreement or law protection and punishment. Marriage third attribute is give or offer your lover security feeling. That is even any relationship requirest.
Law protection and law regulate is very important, because human being with natural attribute, natural attribute is changeable. Self-discipline does not have enough security, so normal people come to this real world need practice ourselves nature attribute and sociality’s attribute. That all through the give-give is obtained, the way the same like Buddhism “Yin” and “Guo”, plant “Yin” is like giving, “Guo” is getting.
Sex and love. When marriage has problem some people look for outside help, like family consultation, friends or pray God. Some people find sex or new lover. Only looking for sex may not cost damaging marriage, we may can go back make u-turn, but we are normal person, too much u-turn will make person unnormal more. I believe you back normal person best way is stay alone until get love or build new balance.
Stay alone need have lots of courage, take lots of time, cost resource, learn wisdom from God or life, keep kind-heart…, stay alone the way fair to everyone( when problems happened). Yes, don’t go that far, when you not sure.
No cheat is not easy, but be honesty is our goal, go to reach that goal, we need give sympathy, carry on responsibility, make support for each parts.
iQuest says:
Marriage ≠ True Love
Marriage = company roommate, kids, social status, “home” feelings, legal sex, mutual help …
If above statement is true, then so many people with romantic heart looking for the true love would be really disappointed! If above statement is true, it will be much easier to enter into a marriage without looking for the special one, If above statement is true, then maybe we should go back 50 years to the “arranged marriage” time. If above statement is true, then keeping a relationship is so easy, you don’t have to love the
Other person in order to keep the relationship. Sometimes I wonder why Guy people want so much to get married, they want a recognization of their love- Maybe that’s the true love, not the materialism one!
yuan yuan says:
That is why I suggest if not have mature mind do not go that far, stay lone until find true love for plan go to have marriage. I am not against you.
U-Turn says:
To yuan yuan and iQuest,
Types of marriage or marriage-similar relationship:
a) The ideal relationship is that both sides find the other side is his/her true love;
b) The compromised choice is that one chooses to marry someone else who loves him/her, OR to marry someone else whom he/she loves;
c) The convenient choice is that both choose to marry each other only for life convenience, not for love.
Extramarital love, one-night stand or whatever kind of abnormal love exists due to wanting of love. Based on the theory that demand derives from wanting, type a) is immune from extramarital love because people of type a) have already found their true love. People of type c) and people of type b) who choose to marry someone who loves him/her are easy to start another relationship when they encounter their true love or they think it is true love.
Some people who are fond of extramarital love, one-night stand, etc. may be just for fun, stimulation or craziness. We also don’t need to deny that there are some of them who are disappointed at life and play “love” as a game, or worse, for revenge on the opposite gender, or worst, devils with malicious intention and purpose to ruin beauty in others’ life.
[By the way, I would like to post our dialogue as an independent article on 51 blog and even on the Happy Family section of Rolia, the title of the dialogue may be called “Love and Compromise”. Yuan yuan and iQuest, please let me know if I can have your permission and authorization to do that. Thanks.]
iQuest says:
LOVE AND MARRIAGE- Who can see it through and understand all?! It probably is the most complicated question to be answered. Different people hold different views, even the same person might have different answers at different time…Despite of all the issues, problems, confusions, love and hate, we still can’t imagine our world without love and marriage.
(U-Turn, no problem to post above dialogues. Go ahead and hope to have comments and ideas from more people)
yuan yuan says:
Yes, u-turn, light is green.
更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
爱、婚姻和妥协让我们在理想与现实之间忧郁和徘徊。在爱的关系中，我们都希望能够被理想眷顾，但真正被理想眷顾的又有几人呢？我们如何才能在理想和现实之间找到并做到平衡呢？欢迎你参与由《婚外恋该不该来》引起的关于爱、婚姻和妥协的讨论，下面的对话就算是引玉之石。
说明1：《婚外恋该不该来》只是从一种角度、使用一种思维方法对婚外恋所引起的三角关系中的利益和道德进行的一种尝试性思考和分析，片面和狭隘不言自明。但是，几位对本话题感兴趣的网友却从不同的角度提出了自己的分析和观点，比之原文更有意义，也更有可读性。特将讨论内容汇集在一起，题目就叫《Love, Marriage and Compromise ?C 爱、婚姻与妥协》，与大家分享。
说明2：观点是随着观点人所处的角度、高度和采用的思维方式而变化的。我们欢迎对所有观点和分析进行讨论、质疑或者批评。但是，我们也提请朋友们注意：讨论的对象是观点和分析本身，而不是提出观点的人，请勿对观点人妄加猜测或评论，更杜绝一切谩骂污辱之辞。
说明3：希望朋友们在参与讨论时，能够尽量跳出非黑即白的是非标准。我们以为自己正确并不意味着别人就是错误。我们每一个人在做的，都是给社会给他人提供一种生活的参考模式；我们同时也在参考着别人的生活模式，结合自己的情况，根据自己的标准，确立和修改自己的生活模式。
说明4：本对话主要是英文，因为几位网友无法使用中文输入软件，出于对他们的尊重和沟通中用词的一致性，U-Turn的回复也是使用的英文。这一点在本对话的最后也有相关说明。对因此造成的阅读不便，表示歉意。
说明5：对本对话中涉及到的几位网友的发言，部分已经取得他们的同意和授权，还有几位未能联系上他们，（也许是所留联系方法错误的原因）。如果你们看到了这篇对话，对其中的发言有任何保留意见的话，请及时通知我，我会在第一时间按照你们的意见进行相应处理。
下面是对话的正文：
iQuest says:
Absolutely 谬误!!!
We are talking about human beings, how can the most advanced organic cells being rated as numbers like 1, 2, 3? If life is as simple as your thinking, the world would be a much better livable place..
If you need an excuse to have 婚外情, you don’t need to make such an effort to articulate a naive article. Go right ahead since you already have the pass as a Men- Isn’t “陈世美” thought in their brains somewhere already???
yuan yuan says:
You are smart, great and real love always need make balance, some time break is build a new balance with lots pain but worth to do it. Go ahead.
U-Turn says:
To iQuest:
This topic is absolutely a complicated one. What I tried to do was just to touch one of its diverse aspects, even not. It needs more cases and analysises.
To yuan yuan:
You are right. People must be aware that the love relationship and/or marriage is a dynamic balance and participants must adjust something to sustain the balance from time to time.
Mary says:
A little thought for the almost-40-year-old, not-married, and has-no-boyfriend-to-be-married girl in the topic: She’d better catch the time and get a baby of man. Having her own child is the destination of a woman. Her age couldn’t wait too long for her to complete this destination. Marriage is just the form of legal, the most important thing is 2 peoples have their own child. So, that girl can have a baby of that “great” man, who requests her to be his “lover”. Thus, there is no too much different as marrying him.
yuan yuan says:
If you and your spouse both know to adjust balance that is great. If try 5 years still not work out, stay lone is better, life is so short.
I believe great life is you have man who you love and he love you too. Also Mary she said is right women need have child women need make all the situation ready for have child and make sure child can get love and care from dad. Women should learn to be strong and independent have your child and child dad and your lover. If all can be together that is perfect, if can’t find love, we need find person who love child and want to gave you child. You need time to find love, but birth age once over, that will be so sad. Women we need love ourselves first the true love will come.
iQuest says:
In searching for the true meaning of LOVE between men and women, you will see in our society now the broken marriages, high divorce rates, cheating wives/husbands… so on and on, but don’t deny it that you do also see happy couples and happy marriages around you- some are your friends, your relatives, your co-workers…
If you have wondered why they are so happy in a marriage world- It is not because they happen to find the other half or they are lucky to find the other person they just fit each other so well, I don’t believe in that. What I truly believe is that happy couples they MAKE their marriage work themselves, they make the relationship goes on, it involves tremendous responsibility, compromise, communication and love without condition, and they grow the relationship together.
As simple as if you are given the most beautiful flower in the world, it will die eventually if you don’t water it, don’t put it under the sun and don’t take care of it.. Nothing comes easy, you want a better relationship, then go make your great effort and make it happen…
True love is build on the solid foundation of trust, responsibility, compromise, understanding, caring and belief!!
U-Turn says:
To Mary,
Your good thoughts have presumed that the lady F desired to have a baby in her life, however, the information of whether the lady F desires such is not available in the topic. Even though there is such a presumption, the lady F maybe prefers to have a child with both parents rather than to be a single mother. Additionally, whether or not marriage matters varies by people.
To yuan yuan,
Women need love themselves first, then the true love will come. It is a very good point.
To iQuest,
I totally agree with you that “True love is build on the solid foundation of trust, responsibility, compromise, understanding, caring and belief!!” Your have listed many variables in a marriage or love relationship that have to be in their places to make sure there is a good relationship. Unfortunately, not every person is aware of these factors and not every person who is aware can make these variables in their places, so problems come in their relationships.
Mary says:
Saying “bye” to M and find a marriage is the best for F. F is a girl with higher expectation on “future’s husband”, who exceeds her own “value”. She really needs to improve herself, so she can meet the expectation of the gentleman who meets her expectation. For short term solution, cosmetic surgery is a way to improve appearance (which is very important asset for a lady), for long term solution, improve personal capabilities.
yuan yuan says:
Extra-marital relationship shouldn’t happen. Once happened, you must let your spouse know that, that is hurt, but you have to do it, make sure every one be safe. Honesty is No.1 rules, three parts all need try to make work out. Out or stay or wait. no cheating.
M he is not right to keep both wife and F, that is cheating and pillage even F and wife both can tolerate him, time won’t last long. Don’t waste time and money, specially M you shouldn’t worry about how much will cost for breaking such family which can never work out. If M want to make fair for yourself, wife and F, you better be stay single until find person that is you really want.
Marriage is sacred, so be serious to go to have marriage.
F she has right to love M, but no right to break his family and cheat his wife. F she need take lots punishment for disturb his family. Time can prove that what is game what is true love.
Follow your heart, honest heart suffer all the punishment.
U-Turn says:
To Mary,
“She really needs to improve herself, so she can meet the expectation of the gentleman who meets her expectation.” This is the essence of the formula of the balance of both values. If the balance doesn’t exist, the relationship is difficult to be established, even though established, the relationship is difficult to survive in the lifetime unless the balance is made a reality by both efforts.
To yuan yuan,
A brilliant thought.
yuan yuan says:
If F she need true love, she need be independent, stand on the same platform (give love, not need help). This why only few marriage can last forever.
iQuest says:
What’ the secret of long lasting marriage, relationship and love??? This is a billionaire question… Just ask a simple question, do you love yourself every second, every minute, all day long, all year long and always? I don’t believe anybody can say yes. If you can’t even say you love yourself all the time and forever, how can it possibly happen that you will love somebody else forever and ever…
Come to marriage, you can’t always go with your heart, follow your passion. There is more involved than physical requirements. You also need listening, sympathy, communication, compromise, care and more… If you can’t commit yourself to this, then don’t go that far… Under the beautiful surface of marriage, there is more responsibility involved you could ever imagine. Don’t always admire the married life, the grass is not always greener on the other side. What is important to a being is to love yourself, love your life and live to the most of it… Want what you have now and being happy…
U-Turn says:
To yuan yuan,
Agree with you that being independent is the pre-condition for someone to love and to be loved.
To iQuest,
To make a man and a woman to come together is mainly because of their common or similar value views, not because of their physical matches so that one is willing to admit and appreciate the other, which is the incentive for them to enjoy communicating, staying, loving and caring each other, and also the motive for them to compromise and be patient with each other, which they think is worth it.
If in a relationship, one is always obligated, not willing to compromise and be patient, it indicates that there is no balance, the parties have to do something or adjust something to restore their balance in any form to save their relationship, otherwise, either the relationship will come to an end or one or even both of them will lose in their unbreathable relationship.
yuan yuan says:
Here have some interaction between love yourself and give love, Love yourself base on finally goal is want to be better person to give love, if you no time and resource love yourself you couldn’t improve yourself, that is can not have continuous energy for giving love.
I believe that “…Don’t go that far…”
Follow your heart base on after 5 years try hard save marriage still not work out. Follow your heart is not only physical parts also with soul parts, you are still miss that person, you have passion to spend time to know to care and share with that person, you still have lots resonance with that person, that heart you should follow. We are love ourselves is continuous give fresh blood to heart, passion and soul can be forever.
iQuest says:
Love somebody so deep, so profound and for ever! That is a beautiful thing and you should feel fortunate to have found someone worth this love, even though he or she doesn’t response back or love you back as well as you expect. Because it doesn’t matter, it is YOU who want to love him/her, it is YOU who is experiencing this strong feelings- follow your heart without asking for any expectations, enjoy your feelings to the most without asking for returns, that is the most important… Just letting go your emotions and letting go your heart.
Heart Broken sometimes? So what, I think heart is made from such a durable material so it can broke millions of times but will still recover… If you truly, deeply love someone, no condition should be attached to it… If you did ask for return, expect the love back from the other person, involve your little selfishness, how can you honestly tell yourself that the LOVE is true love???
U-Turn says:
To iQuest,
People need to love and to be loved.
Even if one loves the other without any condition, I would like to believe that the one must expect the other’s love. I admire the love because it is unconditional. However, one-side love is always, more or less, a burden for both sides. On the one hand, the loving person suffers while loving because he/she cannot obtain love from the other side. On the other hand, the loved person suffers too because he/she cannot give love to the loving person. So, the ideal love is that two persons both love each other without condition.
Unfortunately, in real life, quite a few people encounter such a problem whether they should choose to marry someone who loves them or to marry someone who they love because they couldn’t find someone who loves them and who they love, too. To expect less, one may find someone to marry when they are both interested in, but don’t love each other very much.
Love without condition is pure. However, balance is a requisite for a happy and steady relationship.
iQuest says:
Love should be unconditional. That’s the definition of this word: LOVE is wanting others to be happy. It is unconditional and it requires a lot of courage and acceptance (including self-acceptance). If you don’t achieve this, then that’s not TRUE love.
I agree that most of the marriages are not based on true love. It is more for life convenience than everything: kids, financial benefits, social pressures when you come to certain ages… People get married for their life convenience, not for the meaning of LOVE. If you truly love somebody, you don’t have to marry him/her in order to show your love. True love to somebody is to make him/her being HAPPY. Marriage has nothing to do with it…For example, if I am a true bird lover, I will let it fly in the sky looking for food rather than keep it in the cage with enough food because I know the bird will be happy to be free. If you love somebody truly, then thinking in his/her mind, being in his/her shoes, doing things to the most of his/her benefit…
Of course you don’t see the TRUE AND PURE LOVE often these days. But you can still find it in Mums’ eyes to their kids, in owner’s smiles to their dog/cat, in Lovers passionate kisses to each other…If you happen to be one of them who truly love somebody or being truly loved, being fortunate and being blessed!!!
U-Turn says:
To iQuest,
I agree with you that “True love to somebody is to make him/her being HAPPY” and being freer. Due to its strict meaning, “true love” is one-sided almost without exception.
To put “true love” aside, marriage, as a real relationship in life, has turned into a mutually beneficial partnership, which is also the definition in the eyes of law, even worse, a kind of compromise without other better alternatives between parties. This is life and “love” in life.
讨厌 says:
好好的一篇文章，结果评论却完全是英文的，讨厌。你们这些半了咯叽的中国英语。看来大家都是在上班时间来泡网的，所以没有中文输入法。你们利用老板的时间，来泡网就道德吗？
iQuest says:
If it is agreed that Marriage is defined as a legal partnership for mutual benefits, it is kind of “business” relationship. And you pay for it because nothing is for free. Going for the marriage world, you get the benefits it offers, at the same time, what do you pay for it? Your total freedom, your compromise with another person? your responsibility? But at the end of day, it is your own decision to buy or not. No one can force you. And as an adult, you have to be responsible with whatever reason you make.
As for love, it dose exit even if it is only one-sided.
U-Turn says:
To iQuest,
Marriage is treated just like a partnership relationship, especially while coming to the stage of divorce, because law is incapable to regulate the “true” love or even the motive and purpose behind one’s decision to enter into a marriage with someone else. Law just puts marriage in a simple way, mainly in the manner of feasible rights and obligations between parties.
That doesn’t mean it is the whole thing about marriage in the real life. In the real life, very few involve “true” love in their marriage while most involve compromises (or called “balance”) in various aspects of their marriage life. The compromise or balance can be in diverse ways in the marriage life. For example, both sides may compromise not to have sex with anybody else outside of the marriage even if one desires but he/she doesn’t want his/her partner to do the same thing, so he/she has to control him/herself in order to keep their relationship balanced. There is love which is the incentive for both sides to compromise, but not in the meaning of “true” love.
Except in the case of “true” love, relationship depends on balance to sustain, almost without exception.
回讨厌:
本来没有想回你的帖，甚至想要不要把你的回帖给删了。但又一想，你回帖本身就说明了你对该话题的兴趣、思考或困惑，而并无恶意，所以就你的帖略谈一点我的看法。
我的答复原则是：用中文回复中文，用英文回复英文。我认为这是对对方的一种尊重，英文好坏其实是另一回事，没有人会跑到这来学英语的。
至于大家是否是在上班时间来泡网（也许本话题就是某人的工作内容之一），是否没有中文输入法（也许有但懒得去转换），是否利用老板的时间（也许有人自己就是老板），我无法也无须揣测；至于是否道德，自然更在题外了。
yuan yuan says:
Sorry, I don’t have Chinese software, thank you understand and support.
iQuest says:
I enjoy this discussion not only because you get different views from different opinions, but also it makes myself think and search deeply. Sometimes I may change and revise my thinking during this search…The more you think, the clearer you see things as they really are.
I wish I could type in Chinese which will make it so easier to express your ideas. Too bad don’t know how.
Anyway, I hope more people could join this discussion and give your side of the stories.
yuan yuan says:
“You have to be responsible with whatever reason you make.” Yes, this is marriage one meaning?C marriage with his sociality’s attribute.
Good marriage with its first attribute - nature attribute and second attribute sociality.
Good marriage= love responsibility, SELF-DISCIPLINE, Sociality agreement or law protection and punishment. Marriage third attribute is give or offer your lover security feeling. That is even any relationship requirest.
Law protection and law regulate is very important, because human being with natural attribute, natural attribute is changeable. Self-discipline does not have enough security, so normal people come to this real world need practice ourselves nature attribute and sociality’s attribute. That all through the give-give is obtained, the way the same like Buddhism “Yin” and “Guo”, plant “Yin” is like giving, “Guo” is getting.
Sex and love. When marriage has problem some people look for outside help, like family consultation, friends or pray God. Some people find sex or new lover. Only looking for sex may not cost damaging marriage, we may can go back make u-turn, but we are normal person, too much u-turn will make person unnormal more. I believe you back normal person best way is stay alone until get love or build new balance.
Stay alone need have lots of courage, take lots of time, cost resource, learn wisdom from God or life, keep kind-heart…, stay alone the way fair to everyone( when problems happened). Yes, don’t go that far, when you not sure.
No cheat is not easy, but be honesty is our goal, go to reach that goal, we need give sympathy, carry on responsibility, make support for each parts.
iQuest says:
Marriage ≠ True Love
Marriage = company roommate, kids, social status, “home” feelings, legal sex, mutual help …
If above statement is true, then so many people with romantic heart looking for the true love would be really disappointed! If above statement is true, it will be much easier to enter into a marriage without looking for the special one, If above statement is true, then maybe we should go back 50 years to the “arranged marriage” time. If above statement is true, then keeping a relationship is so easy, you don’t have to love the
Other person in order to keep the relationship. Sometimes I wonder why Guy people want so much to get married, they want a recognization of their love- Maybe that’s the true love, not the materialism one!
yuan yuan says:
That is why I suggest if not have mature mind do not go that far, stay lone until find true love for plan go to have marriage. I am not against you.
U-Turn says:
To yuan yuan and iQuest,
Types of marriage or marriage-similar relationship:
a) The ideal relationship is that both sides find the other side is his/her true love;
b) The compromised choice is that one chooses to marry someone else who loves him/her, OR to marry someone else whom he/she loves;
c) The convenient choice is that both choose to marry each other only for life convenience, not for love.
Extramarital love, one-night stand or whatever kind of abnormal love exists due to wanting of love. Based on the theory that demand derives from wanting, type a) is immune from extramarital love because people of type a) have already found their true love. People of type c) and people of type b) who choose to marry someone who loves him/her are easy to start another relationship when they encounter their true love or they think it is true love.
Some people who are fond of extramarital love, one-night stand, etc. may be just for fun, stimulation or craziness. We also don’t need to deny that there are some of them who are disappointed at life and play “love” as a game, or worse, for revenge on the opposite gender, or worst, devils with malicious intention and purpose to ruin beauty in others’ life.
[By the way, I would like to post our dialogue as an independent article on 51 blog and even on the Happy Family section of Rolia, the title of the dialogue may be called “Love and Compromise”. Yuan yuan and iQuest, please let me know if I can have your permission and authorization to do that. Thanks.]
iQuest says:
LOVE AND MARRIAGE- Who can see it through and understand all?! It probably is the most complicated question to be answered. Different people hold different views, even the same person might have different answers at different time…Despite of all the issues, problems, confusions, love and hate, we still can’t imagine our world without love and marriage.
(U-Turn, no problem to post above dialogues. Go ahead and hope to have comments and ideas from more people)
yuan yuan says:
Yes, u-turn, light is green.
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